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Vipera Berus venom
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by keyz on February 27, 2006
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Does anyone have any specific knowledge concerning this snakes venom as some say its comparable to bee venom, however I would assume that its much more toxic to kill rodents, I will be herping for them soon and hopefully see some ritualised courting, I don't intend on getting bitten but JUST IN CASE, I would appreciate any knowledge you guys can pass on,
I will not be handeling them unless neccesary,
Ie on roads etc, I will obviously move them,
cheers peeps
Keyz.
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RE: Vipera Berus venom
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by Snake18 on February 27, 2006
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Keyz,
People have died from Vipera berus bites. It has one of the most active and complex venoms of european snakes. So...drop by drop...it`s more toxic than that of a Crotalus atrox or Bitis for example. Of course, it`sa not as dangerous as Bitis or Crotalus because of its very small size.
Even if you compare a 2ft. Vipera berus to a 2ft. Vipera ammodytes the difference would be clear. V. ammodytes has a much larger head and imense venom glands compared to berus.
Almost 4 years ago, a friend of mine was bitten by a adult female Vipera berus on the field. He was swollen to his wrist. His index finger was twice its normal size. It hurt, but it passed in a couple of days and he was ok. This was a fortunate case. My incident with my first Vipera berus put me in the hospital for 8 days in severe conditions in 2001.
Anyway...Vipera berus are not very agressive snakes so as along as you are cautious and us common sence you shouldn`t have any problems.
Hope this helps,
Best regards, Alex S.
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RE: Vipera Berus venom
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by captiveherps on February 27, 2006
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Subcutaneous LD 50 from Dr. Fry
Mg per Kg
Vipera berus Adder 0.55
Naja nivea Cape cobra 0.72
Naja haje Egyptian cobra 1.15
Agkistrodon piscovorus Cottomouth/ Water moccasin 25.8
Bothriechis schlegelii Eyelash viper 33.2
As you can see the venom is fairly hot, but they dont have much, and LD 50 charts are not so reliable.
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RE: Vipera Berus venom
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by keyz on February 27, 2006
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WOW, well there is another "old wives tale" put to bed!
Thanks for your help guys, The info is the best I could ask for,
Thanks again guys,
Keyz.
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RE: Vipera Berus venom
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by Snake18 on February 27, 2006
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James,
You mixed something up.
The subcutaneus LD50 fot Vipera berus is 6.45
0.55 is the intravenous LD 50.
Keyz, check this out:
http://www.venomdoc.com/LD50/LD50men.html
Alex S.
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RE: Vipera Berus venom
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by LarryDFishel on February 27, 2006
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Actually, going by Dr. Fry's subQ LD50 and the first couple of sites I found on bee venom, it looks like technically you heard right. V. berus venom may actually be several times WEAKER than bee venom.
The part you missed and that many people leave out of these kinds of stories is that even a V. berus can inject a few hundred times more venom than a single bee can...
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RE: Vipera Berus venom
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by CAISSACA on February 28, 2006
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Venom toxicity is of little interest here. Of much more interest are the possible consequences of a bite, and the probability of them.
In a recent study from Sweden, out of 231 patients admitted to hospital, 11% sufferd no envenoming, 47% minor envenoming, 29% moderate envenoming and 13% severe (i.e, life-threatening) envenoming.
The description of the severity grades was as follows:
"None, no symptoms or signs except fang marks; Minor, local swelling, mild, transient, and spontaneously resolving systemic symptoms; Moderate, swelling involving the whole extremity; pronounced or prolonged systemic symptoms; Severe, swelling involving the whole extremity and parts of the trunk, severe and life-threatening systemic symptoms."
In otehr words, statisticaly, you have a ~ 40% chance of being fairly seriously sick. Even "minor" symptoms can be a real nuisance - swelingof a hand can make that hand pretty much useless for several days - just try tying your shoelaces or even wiping your backside if your dominant hand looks like a water-filled Marigold glove.
Note also that, after adder bites, early disabling symptoms, such as fainting, collapse, shock and serious GI symptoms can occur quite rapidly and suddenly, making reaching a hospital difficult and quite unpleasant.
I suppose the stats above will exaggerate the risk somewhat, since they are based on hospital admissions, and many herpetologists do not seek medical aid after lesser bites, but even so, don't underestimate the humble adder!
But then again, unless you catch and handle them, you would have to work at getting bitten by one.
Cheers,
WW
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