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Status of the North Eastern Antivenom Bank?
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by KenoshaMark on November 28, 2008
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It seemed like an excellent idea. Has it failed to clear regulatory hurdles? I know that the last post about it spoke of the cost of Crofab pushing the dues up too high. Might there be enough demand for memberships even if they stocked many other antivenoms besides Crofab?
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RE: Status of the North Eastern Antivenom Bank?
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by Cro on November 28, 2008
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Mark, I think the idea of a private AV Bank is dead.
From what I remember, Al explained in a post why it would not work, but I can not seem to find the post.
Perhaps Al will post a link to it.
All hope might not be lost though. I have heard of an effort involving the US Poison Control Centers that might involve making exotic antivenom available in more parts of the country. There are folks here who know much more about this, and hopefully, they will give us an update on how that program is going.
Best Regards John Z
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RE: Status of the North Eastern Antivenom Bank?
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by MoccasinMan on November 28, 2008
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NCARK had a well thought out plan for a Southern States AV Bank... we have the stock and infrastructure in place... Chris H put up a survey about who would participate in somthing of that nature... 90 people said they would participate... 40 people would be enough for our model to work... less than 10 were really willing to get involved... it would be about $500 per person every 2 years... it is a shame we can't get enough people involved!
AW
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RE: Status of the North Eastern Antivenom Bank?
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by Cro on November 28, 2008
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Andrew, it really is ashamed that something like that did not work better.
You are talking about $250.00 a year for a serious venomous hobbyist who lives in states where keeping exotic venomous snakes are legal.
That is about the price of one vial of SAIMR. It would seem like cheap insurance, considering that a snake bite treatment might take 20 vials.
I think part of the problem is that the price of exotic venomous snakes is way to low. That allows any yahoo with $60.00 to buy a baby gabooon viper at a reptile show. And green mambas can be bought for $150.00. Those same yahoos think that the Zoo stocks of antivenom will be there to bail them out, if they think about getting bitten at all.
The unfortunate thing is that someone who pays $60.00 for a exotic venomous snake is not going to pay $250.00 a year for antivenom access.
Advanced keepers with many venomous snakes should see the value in a $250.00 antivenom bank, and I am surprised that you could not get 40 people to sign up. In South Carolina, there should easily be that many people who are keeping exotic venomous in rather large collections.
If you were to double the numbers of people needed to make it work, from 40 to 80, would that cause the yearly cost to go down, or would it still be $250 a year ? If that is the case, where would the extra money be going ? Also, were you asking for $500 for two years upfront, or were you asking for $250 a year ? The reason I ask that, is that it is far easier for folks to round up $250 than it is to round up $500 dollars. Perhaps have them make a two year commitment, but do the billing on a annual basis ? Only offering a two year membership for $500 is a mistake.
Don't give up on the idea though. Hopefully, with time, and a better economy, there will be enough people who be able to make the idea work.
Best Regards John Z
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RE: Status of the North Eastern Antivenom Bank?
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by MoccasinMan on November 29, 2008
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80 people would cut the cost in half... $250 every two years. We need the money on the front end for the order... then it must be renewed every 2 years because the supply would expire. The more people involved the cheaper the AV!
AW
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RE: Status of the North Eastern Antivenom Bank?
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by Buzztail1 on November 29, 2008
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Two major things are working against this.
One is the state of the economy.
"Spare cash" is something that is hard to come by right now. I know that I personally would like to participate in a lot more of the worthy causes out there than I can afford.
Two is that there are a lot of people out there that can only legally keep native venomous. That doesn't mean that there aren't people keeping exotic venomous. It just means that they don't want to come forward to participate and maybe "rat themselves out".
In the end, banning exotic venomous reptiles will not cause people to stop keeping them. It will only make it harder to treat them when they are bitten. A comprehensive AFFORDABLE licensing/permitting system will make snakebite identification and treatment MUCH easier.
I say "snakebite identification" because I have seen several instances where people have lied about what bit them - some almost until the point where they died due to mistreatment.
I say "AFFORDABLE" on purpose.
Georgia's permitting system is hooked to a requirement for outrageous insurance requirements that make the whole thing unreasonably expensive. So do people in Georgia not keep exotic venomous?
Yeah right! Too many times this is not the case.
Florida's permit system just had its second rate hike, also in the form of insurance bond (from $1,000 to exhibit to $10,000 to exhibit). The first one was from $5/year to $100/year for the initial permit which still had Florida as the leading example of reasonable permitting.
As the prices continue to rise on permits and not on snakes, more and more people will play the "It won't happen to me" game and keep illegally.
Just my own opinion.
R/
Karl
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RE: Status of the North Eastern Antivenom Bank?
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by Phobos on December 1, 2008
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Basically the FDA was not interested in supporting A/V Banks sprouting up all over the place. Dr. Seifert (NMPCC)obtained a NIH grant to start to address this issue by augmenting Zoo's A/V supply with additional A/V for commonly kept species.
Buying Crofab for all of the NA species would "break" any A/V banks budget. It took 22 vials to resolve a Pigmy RS bite. Even if the bank stocked Bioclone, the hospital would refuse to administer a NON-FDA approved drug over an approved drug CroFab.
Till all this gets resolved keep at least a "few doses of A/V on hand for what you keep.
Al
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RE: Status of the North Eastern Antivenom Bank?
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by Cro on December 2, 2008
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"Dr. Seifert (NMPCC)obtained a NIH grant to start to address this issue by augmenting Zoo's A/V supply with additional A/V for commonly kept species."
I see several problems with that if we are talking about stocking large supplies of CroFab at the Zoos for North American Pit Viper bites. Most Zoos are already understaffed, and those staff members are underpaid. If a zookeeper has to get up at 2 a.m. and drive to the zoo and pick up 20 vials of CroFab, then deliver them somewhere, just to treat some nit-whit who got bitten by a pet copperhead, then the system is not going to work. The CroFab should be stocked at the hospitals.
If we are however talking about larger supplies at zoos of antivenom like SAMAR for Gaboon Vipers, and the South American antivenoms for Bothrops, then that makes a bit more sense, as the zoo would also benifit from having more of that available.
It would be interesting to know just what antivenoms were on the list of "commonly kept species."
Best Regards
John Z
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