|
RE: thought I would share some new regulations...
|
Reply
|
|
by stopgetinpopped on December 13, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Joy,
Local hospitals do not carry exotic serum. However the responsible keeper getting Antivenom requires a doctors awareness and signature in order to recieve said serum. It's actually part of the aquisition process. All they need to do is contact a physician, inform him/her what they are doing, probably do some minor convincing and they are off and running.
The Antivenom is the central key to the future of venomous keeping, whether some people want to realize that or not, without some sort of Antivenom available, whether privately or a public A/V bank, the hobby will go where it rightfully should, into the past. If people don't want to take the responsibility into their own hands and get the proper protocol, training, knowledge, experience and protective measures, then yes, I firmly believe the private keeping of venomous should go away!
|
| |
|
RE: thought I would share some new regulations...
|
Reply
|
|
by KINGRIUS on December 13, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Stopgetinpopped, if it were up to you, would you take the privilege of keeping hots from those that do not keep responsibly? If so, you might as well take away many of the other things people do all the time that are risky and dangerous. How about driving an automobile? In 2002 there were 2.9 million people injured, and about 42,000 people killed in the US. But when theres a fatal accident no one raises an eyebrow and starts talking about taking away driver licsenes from people. I understand why we need to keep responsibly, because each time someone gets popped, we're that much closer to having strict laws put into place to take our animals away. But the fact that I understand how the laws come about doesn't mean that I agree with them. They may as well outlaw smoking, bungy jumping, wendy double cheese burgers, and using tools with sharp edges and pointy tips. etc. etc...
Since I live in a society in which a blunder on my part may rob someone else of their right to keep, I will operate by all laws that may come into place and will keep as responsibly as I can.
|
| |
|
RE: thought I would share some new regulations...
|
Reply
|
|
by JRHarrison on December 13, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Sorry I don't understand the car driving vs hot keeping.
People do care if someone dies in a car accident that is why we have laws (traffic) against speeding, reckless driving and DUI etc.
Making this comparison does not make sense, because driving is regulated: you must have a liscense to drive and follow the law. Your liscense can be taken away if you violate the law. However, keeping hots in most places requires no liscense or knowledge, and usually there are no specific laws controlling the behavior of those who keep hots.
Driving is a priveledge and so is the ability to keep any animal. Both can be taken away if people abuse the priveledge. As I have stated before, I believe in a permit system which requires people to keep their own antivenom- I do not believe in an outright ban. However, it is easier for lawmakers and enforcers to make an outright ban than to regulate something. That's why we should be policing and regulating ourselves- but that won't work if too many people show no responsibility.
The ND laws that Terry posted seem fair and reasonable to me. The current idea for an antivenom bank in the northeast is a good one, but it will only work if people sign on to it. If you want to keep your hots, then you should be helping with this project.
Jim Harrison
|
| |
|
RE: thought I would share some new regulations...
|
Reply
|
|
by stopgetinpopped on December 13, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
KINGRIUS,
Excellent point. you said "if it were up to you stopgettinpopped"
The fact of the matter is.."it is up to YOU" whether you continue to keep venomous or not.
Everything in this country is regulated, either by the govt...
Hunting, fishing, driving, working, sex....
or regulated by the individually interested 'hobbyist'groups....
SCUBA diving, skydiving, race car driving, hot-air ballooning.
You see now? If a hobbyist works amongst themselves to come up with reasonable alternative to banning, things generally work out fine.
Does govt. or self regulation eliminate mishaps, some fatal? No.
But your legislator doesn't look at a famous race car drivers death recently as an excuse to ban something that they personally feel is reckless and dangerous.
However, the venomous keeping hobbyists refuse to creat and abide by some common sense self rule. So you/we are all deemed a bunch of nutjobs.
Do you think legislators would allow skydiving without parachutes? No. Do they think people should keep venomous without a reasonable source of antivenom and protocol? No.
If you are looking at your local zoo to cover your butt in the event of a bite...
Since you like vehicle analogies so much try this one.
I go out and by a 150,000 dollar Ferrari, I drive it carefully, safely and legally, but since I spent so much money on the car and I spend so much time driving it that I no longer have enough money or time to buy a seatbelt, so I ask you if I can borrow yours out of your Chevy. You really don't want to see me or anyone else croak and you are afraid of publicity headlines that read like this " man dies, because person that he didn't even know refused to give him his seatbelt out of his own car. You say "hey, man I can't endanger my life or the lives of my family because he was too cheap and stupid to buy his own seatbelt!"
The only difference is the Zoo's give the serum up and their own staff is now in danger!
The point is, everyone needs to buck up and help each other out.
|
| |
|
RE: thought I would share some new regulations...
|
Reply
|
|
by ALA_herp31 on December 13, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
|
If you have 10-20 native sopecies in your colection and you are very well able to care for these animals, then a law comes in place that says you have to stock your own A/V to cover those species you keep. Do you realy think that most keepers will be able to aford stocking their own A/V. In my opinion I see no way that most of the venomous keepers in this country could posably aford to stock their own A/V. Acording to my knowlage it takes a average of 20 vial's of A/V for one bite, I wonder how those in our hobby who are capable of buying the A/V they would need, expect those of us that cant (and to add, those of us that cant do it make up the majority of keepers in this country)to obtain A/V. I keep no venomous at this time, but I know a lot of herpers that do and all of these keepers are very responceble, but they do not have the funds to aford A/V, what do you expect them to do if a law comes in place to stock your own A/V? I agree with regulations to a point, but making the keeper of small means buy hes own A/V is taking it to fare. That would be a direct violation of rights and would also be a way to make the man/woman of moderit means opsolet.......Just my opinion, I truly am tierd of seeing our keeping rights eat up because of stupidaty......Happy herping Wally
|
| |
|
RE: thought I would share some new regulations...
|
Reply
|
|
by Phobos on December 13, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Hi everyone:
This why the antivenom bank is a very good, I dare say practical idea. It works sort of like a life insurance policy. Everybody pays a little into the bank which will stock the antivenoms for the members species. Then you hope like hell your not unlucky enough to need to make a withdrawl. No fuss no muss!
People have NO problem shelling out $1000-1500 for a King Cobra but god forbid you would have to invest in keeping a stock of antivenom for it. Look at the guy in Michigan that had a collection roughly valued at $50,000, you would think he would have spent a few dollars on antivenom....NOT a drop to be found! He was keeping Bloody.. PNG Taipans and NO antivenom!! Yes, it's like jumping out of an airplane with no parachute and hope that somebody brings you one while you still have enough altitude to make use of it!
To join the NEAVB were talking about $250.00 membership fee, then $100 per year. The A/V is stocked & maintained at a first class facility, with excellent doctors and the ability to get it where it's required. It's being set up as a non-profit ogranization, so we can also apply for other funding streams, like corporate and government grants.
Nobody needs to be a rocket scientist to see this is a "No Brainer" solution to a major issue facing our hobby. I know one thing for sure: Lawmakers see bans on keeping venomous snakes as a " No Brainer"
Why "snarl" at Terry & Jim? They certainly are supportive of private hot herp keeping, matter a fact, none of this legislation that will come down on our head will effect them at all. They COMPLY at least but I'll bet they exceed the ND regs. They are actually spending time giving us councel.
Eveybody needs to pull together or it's gonna be "curtains" for Private keeping of Hots.
Email me for a questioneer regarding the A/V Bank.
Al Coritz,
info@neavb.org
|
| |
|
RE: thought I would share some new regulations...
|
Reply
|
|
by ALA_herp31 on December 13, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
|
Jim, can you tell me if thare is a A/V bank for the Southeastern USA? I would realy like to know. If not I would realy love to try and be part of geting one up and runing. I am all for the idia of a reganel A/V bank, I like the idia of being able to know that the A/V would be readaly avalible for any bite victoms in our comunity. If we have one here in the Southeast USA, I havent heard of it yet, if ya'll know of one please let me know, I would love to be part of it. Thanks ya'll......Happy herping Wally
|
| |
|
RE: thought I would share some new regulations...
|
Reply
|
|
by ALA_herp31 on December 13, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
|
Ya'll, I feel I owe all of ya'll an apolegy. I kinda lost my cool on my post. I realy do think that a reganel or national A/V bank would realy be a good idia, it would truly save a lot of lives. I hope to be able to be part of the efort to get one up and runing. Please except my apolegy ya'll, I have a bad habit of forgeting myself at times.......Happy herping Wally
|
| |
|
RE: thought I would share some new regulations...
|
Reply
|
|
Anonymous post on December 13, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
With the exception of CSL, most exotic snake antidotes are fairly inexpensive. To make the claim, "I can't afford it, bill me later", is unsatisfactory. No exotic venomous keeper can afford to NOT have it. It's easier for one to order snakes on impulse and rely on a zoo to protect you than to budget an additional $1500 to protect yourself. Since the dawn of ages, venomous herpetoculturists have been at odds with the zoological community. Why? Do these conflicts exist between the zoological community and the Boid, Colubrid, Chelonia, and Anura enthusiasts? No. Why? Because venomous herpetoculturists are costing the zoological community money and while simultaneously putting them at risk too. It's unrealistic to expect anyone to endlessly put up with this.
The core of possessing antivenin is the doctor's participation. Remember, when soliciting a prospective doctor for his/her participation, it's important to clean yourself up. No doctor is going to submit his/her professional resume, risk their reputation, making themselves potentially liable to someone who wants to keep dangerous animals when they look like shit. It creates a bad impression. Be professional. Keep your animals professionally. Create a portfolio itemizing your procedure and agenda. Be prepared and informed to answer any questions they may have.
Question: "Who is your medical insurance provider"?
"I don't have medical insurance" = bad answer
Be prepared for rejection. It may happen the 1st, 5th, or umpteenth time. Don't give up until you have someone's participation. The road to success is everso long, tedious, and winding. It seems that nothing comes easy to anything worth doing. Venomous herpetoculture is worth doing.
You guys like "The Phantom"? Aside from the deplorable, unethical venomoid issue, if there is anything ELSE I wanted you to take from me this would DEFINITELY be it. Stock your own serum. It will take effort and work, yes...but in the end you will enjoy the rewarding sense of having the freedom knowing you are doing it the right and responsible way. On what grounds can they legitimately argue to take them away from you?
Think about it. I'm very serious this time.
-The Phantom
|
| |
|
RE: thought I would share some new regulations...
|
Reply
|
|
by Chance on December 13, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
To be honest, I'm not really sure that keeping one's own AV would even be enough to stop the coming tide. With all the recent bite stories in the news, a lot of 'layfolk' are looking around at each other and saying, "My neighbor might have WHAT?!?!" I don't think Bubba and Billy Bob give a rat's behind if you keep your own serum. They care about the potential, regardless of how remote or impossible it is, for your snakes to 'git out an come attack my family.' I'm not sure that state and local legislators would really care that much either. Sure, the ones in ND might and I think that's great for them, but most people don't take hot keepers seriously and think they are just a bunch of kooks out to impersonate Steve Irwin. Of course it's a good idea to keep one's own AV, but I'm afraid that there will be keepers who invest countless thousands of dollars into their collection for both proper housing, getting the permits for the serum and the serum itself, only to have their collection made illegal and seized anyway. Am I the only one who sees this possibility? I saw the potential building here in AR a number of months ago, after a Scottish gentleman decided to order some snakes, take some drugs, toss the snakes in their shipping crate out his car window and go die on the airport grounds. For the longest time, people were sure he had died from snakebite. Only relatively recently, it was determined that he overdosed on whatever drugs he had taken prior to picking up his box of toxic snakes. It was at this point that my partner and I decided to quit while we were ahead, get out of venomous entirely, and stick with our investment pythons. It hasn't happened yet, but I doubt it's too far off. Of course I'm not saying for everyone to get rid of their venomous snakes, but I fear that efforts now, regardless of what they are, may be too little, too late. I guess we can only wait and see.
-Chance
|
| |
|
Email Subscription
You are not subscribed to this topic.
Subscribe!
My Subscriptions
Subscriptions Help
Check our help page for help using
, or send questions, comments, or suggestions to the
Manager.
|
