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RE: venomoids for learning?
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by FSB on December 9, 2008
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After seeing all the patient, and grammatically correct (for the most part!) responses in this thread on the part of so many established experts who definitely "don’t have time" to go round and around with someone who apparently sees fit to do something properly only when being graded, I can only say that my regard for the integrity of this site has never been higher.
I find it ironic that this young man's profile advises one to "Find people in this community that you trust and learn from them," when you could find no more trustworthy, knowledgeable or generous group of venomous snake people anywhere on the web than on this forum. It's amazing that so many of them can even take the time to answer a GOOD question, to say nothing of one that has been beaten into the ground so many times before (or should have been - like a bad weed, it keeps sprouting up again).
Arguing the "pros and cons" of venomoid snakes is beside, and beneath, the point. The surgical alteration of any wild creature for our own selfish purposes, aside from legitimate research, is a crime against Nature, and a violation of any real veterinarian's Hippocratic Oath. As far as I'm concerned, anyone who performs venomoid surgery so they can have a "safe" venomous snake is no better than the people who run over rattlesnakes in the road or chop them up with a hoe. If you want a "safe" venomous snake, you might as well buy a stuffed one at a rattlesnake roundup and support them.
Herpetology and Toxinology are topics of great interest to a great many people, and you will find some stiff competition ahead in what is becoming a fast-growing field (at last). And both entail a lot more than just venomous snakes. Are you ready for organic chemistry?
Venomous snakes comprise only a miniscule fraction of the field of herpetology. How are you on turtles, lizards, crocodilians, amphisbaenians? The great herpetologists (and some of the most influential ones have had no degree at all), have not only had an intimate, in-depth knowldge of all living reptile taxa, but most of the known extinct ones too, as well as a good working knowledge of mammals, birds, fishes, geography, oceanography, fire engines (in the case of RL Ditmars).... it's really endless, and while you may have your own specialization, there is no way to isolate a single group of animals from the overall study of the natural world. (By the way, many great herpetologists, especially Ditmars, Kauffeld and Klauber, have also distinguished themselves as great writers).
Beyond working alongside someone who can demonstrate firsthand the proper use of equipment, techniques and protocols, there really is no such thing as "training" to work with venomous snakes. People who have worked with the real thing for years or even decades have been bitten, and died. Add to that the fact that folks like Brian Frye have recently detected the presence of neurotoxins in the saliva of supposedly nonvenomous snakes, notably the radiated ratsnake, that onetime staple of the pet import trade.
I have to say that my excitement and enthusiasm over the possibilities for communication offered by the internet have been somewhat dimmed by the unforseen negative effects it has had on our beautiful language. The English language is a treasure and a great tradition, a heritage that has been handed down and entrusted to us by previous generations. It deserves our greatest respect, as do venomous snakes. In fact, respect is the single most important single quality that one can bring to the study of venomous reptiles, or anything, for that matter. A willingness to remove the venom apparatus from a snake, like bad, lazy writing, or being impertinent to people who are older and wiser, shows a deplorable lack of respect right from the start. I would suggest to anyone that they resolve this issue first, before even entertaining the idea of handling venomous snakes.
And please bear in mind that doing something properly only when being graded completely negates the purpose of learning. It's like being good only when "someone" is watching.
All the best to all of the experts, professional and amateur (a word that I mean with greatest respect) who make this site what it is.
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RE: venomoids for learning?
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by Buzztail1 on December 10, 2008
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Exhibit A:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dr6-MjpRoKI
It is things like this that make me want to scream!
NO!
I DO NOT BELIEVE VENOMOIDS ARE GOOD FOR TRAINING!
I believe they are the antithesis of keeping venomous snakes!
What could this possible teach anyone?
How to handle a Puff Adder?
I pray not!
As a side note - I totally hate YouTube for allowing this sort of uncensored dangerous behavior to be posted. I only saw this video because someone else posted about it.
R/
Karl
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RE: venomoids for learning?
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by MrBliss on April 27, 2009
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The making a Venomoid is butcher...and disrespectful to these amazing animals. Animals we are suppose to admire as herpetoculturists.
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RE: venomoids for learning?
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by xvenomx on April 28, 2009
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I owned a venomoid once, it died a premature death, I suspect from the surgery, not sugary? Anyway, I am working on implanting extra venom glands, and laser beams for training purposes.All done by a licenced vet. (a veteran with a fishing licence)
But seriously dude,get a coachwhip, or a tree boa for learning to handle an aggressive snake. After keeping those snakes for a few years safely(without being bitten), then get a venomous snake, if you think,no, KNOW you are ready.
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RE: venomoids for learning?
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by hapkidocrochunter on April 28, 2009
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"Do you really think that you will be able to get into college if you are not able to write a sentence with proper use of commas and periods ?"
I know huh......
Hes is right with the point that this isn't a college essay, but when you write in a public forum, it is just that, public. It shows the "world" that you don't care about even getting your point across correctly, since you can't type and don't know basic english skills that my 6 year old daughter can do.
You say that you want to get into a college with a good herpetology program, well, if their are herpetology professors out there, esp. ones with an interest in hots, which website/forum do you think they might be surfing? Not a good way to get your name out there.
You want "practice" with hots, search for a mentor. I have been with my mentor for about a year and a half. It took me a while to find him here in AZ, but it was worth it. He is a great guy with alot of knowledge to give. We have become great friends and life long herpers together. Just be patient, sooner or later, you will find someone who can show you the ropes the safe way, and who knows, you might find a best friend for life.
Just my .02
matt
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