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venom toxicity
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by taipan9 on October 7, 2005
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How dangerous is the venom from a heloderma? Some say it is equal to that of a cobra, while others say it is not life threatening, what is the LD50, and what snake's venom is it comparable to?
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RE: venom toxicity
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by Cro on October 7, 2005
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Helodermas are known to cause a painfull bite, but there are only a few recorded cases of fatal bites.
If the bitten person is young or very old, there is a much greater chance of a more severe problem.
Sort of reminds me of the copperhead snake bite, which is seldom fatal, but can sure cause a world of hurt and tissue damage. JohnZ
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RE: venom toxicity
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by GREGLONGHURST on October 8, 2005
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There have been a few fatal bites. Most, if not all of them involved inebriation on the part of the victim. Alcohol & snake venom is a mean mix.
~~Greg~~
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RE: venom toxicity
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by Phobos on October 8, 2005
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At the snakebite symposium there will be a talk given about a zoo keeper bitten and the medical treatment required. Stay tuned, I will ask some questions about this topic and let you know.
Al
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RE: venom toxicity
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by Dadee on October 11, 2005
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Thomas & Co.,
I just sent an email to Dr. Bryan Grieg Fry (Sorry Bryan for the first mispelling), with your question posed to him, asking for him to post an answer or point you to the information:
******************************************************
Brian,
Can you post on the Experts forum for Venomousreptiles.org (SHHS) under the thread:
http://www.venomousreptiles.org/forums/Experts/19519
Labeled "venom toxicity", taipan9 posts the question:
How dangerous is the venom from a heloderma? Some say it is equal to that of a cobra, while others say it is not life threatening, what is the LD50, and what snake's venom is it comparable to?
We can't seem to find an answer for him and knowing that you have done extensive research in this area and probably can be called the current expert of experts on this subject, I figured you could post an answer or point in the right direction?
Al Coritz (Phobos), is at the Snakebite Symposium and plans to ask about a zoo keeper's bite and the treatment required, however, Thomas (taipan9) still is looking to find the LD50 on these 2 lizards.
Much appreciated,
Matt (Dadee) Johnston
******************************************************
Hopefully we'll see a response to your question, as this is a very well thought out one to pose. Al, not that the info you would get from the Symposium wouldn't be helpful, but it would still just give a generalization into possibly placing the treatment on the scale.
Cheers,
Matt
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RE: venom toxicity
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by Cro on October 11, 2005
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You might want to check out this Heloderma Bite Protocol sheet, edited by Dr. Finley Rusell.
http://herpetology.com/helobite.txt
JohnZ
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RE: venom toxicity
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by Cro on October 11, 2005
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Here are a couple of more sites of interest:
http://wwwchem.csustan.edu/chem4400/SJBR/venom.htm
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=7080053&dopt=Abstract
http://neurochem.atx.ru/frames/themes.htm
The confusion that some people have in stating that Heloderma venom is as toxic as cobra venom seems to come from mis-understanding research involving a Naja kaouthia peptide that was found to have cysteine-rich secretory proteins that are most similar to helothermine, a toxin in Heloderma venom. However, the cobra peptide has a LD50 almost 45 times more toxic than that of the Heloderma.
Best Regards JohnZ
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RE: venom toxicity
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by BGF on October 11, 2005
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Currently travelling at the moment so don't have my library handy. Heloderma venom is reasonably toxic, causing severe effects upon blood chemistry and blood pressure. However, the yield and relative venom delivery efficiency are not typically enough to cause lethal effects. Deaths have occured but only after very prolonged chewing on drunk victims.
Cheers
B
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