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A somewhat different approach - sort of a survey.
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by Buzztail1 on September 18, 2006
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Okay, there is a big difference of opinion over "first venomous snake".
No surprise there.
So, my next "survey" questions still pertain to the same idea.
1) How did you get your first venomous snake?
2) How old were you?
3) What preparation/training did you have before you got it?
4) If you went the route of keeping aggressive nonvenomous snakes beforehand, how did that work out?
5) Did you have a mentor? who? how long before you got your first venomous?
6) What happened to your first venomous snakes?
To be fair, I will supply all of my own answers to these questions.
1) I caught a Canebrake Rattlesnake and a Copperhead sunning themselves together on the same piece of tin. I pinned them, one at a time, and picked them up and put them in a transport box. I had no clue that they would balance on a hook. Literature on that sort of thing was quite scarce in the 1970's.
2) I was 17 years old.
3/4) I had studied snakes since I had taught myself to read. I had kept kingsnakes, water snakes, garter snakes and a boa constrictor - none of which prepared me for these two snakes. I made my own cages and hook. I tried to get to know people in my area that kept snakes but was basically shut out - I was just a kid!
5) No mentor. The local keeper of venomous snakes had no time for a teenager with no experience. I called him up and told him that I had caught a big Canebrake and all of a sudden it was okay to talk to me. He wanted it for his breeding program and traded me a captive produced baby for it. Suddenly he needed someone to come help him clean cages and assist shed his cobras and any number of other tasks.
6) I raised that baby Canebrake to adulthood and against all odds, I kept it and the adult female Copperhead until I moved my family into Navy housing in 1986. Navy housing does not allow venomous snakes so I donated them to be exhibited at Charlestowne Landing in Charleston, South Carolina. They were still on exhibit the last time I visited - admittedly quite a few years ago.
My point with all of this?
There is ALWAYS more information on how to be safer.
You don't NEED a mentor but it could be the difference between taking the chance of pinning and getting bitten and safely hooking.
What happens to beginner snakes? They deserve the best care you can arrange just as any snake does. I hated giving up that Canebrake more than any other snake I have ever had. I am glad I made sure it went to competent people who would take proper care of it.
Karl
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RE: A somewhat different approach - sort of a surv
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by LarryDFishel on September 18, 2006
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1) The first venomous snakes that I consider "mine" were 2 baby saw-scaled vipers I claimed of the ones born in 2004, at the refuge where I volunteer. They were housed at the refuge until recently when I finally built my snake room.
2) I think I was 36 when the saw-scales were born. 38 when I brought things home. By then I "owned" somewhere around 10-12 venomous and was immediately housing several more to help take some load off the refuge.
3) Before that I had 25 years of keeping non-venomous off and on, during most of which I didn't realize how little I knew. A couple years of being a little more serious and doing some research (but only keeping a few snakes). Then about two years of volunteering at the refuge taking care of their venomous. I already had over 1000 hours and had cared for everything from pigmies to kings (and the parents of the saw-scales).
4) Before I started with venomous, I never really though of working with non-venomous as training, but I think just the fact that I had kept snakes that I used a hook with sometimes helped with dextarity at first.
5) My mentor was Albert Killian of the Everglades Outpost. He's a certifiable maniac, but he knows what he's doing. The saying "do as I say, not as I do" about sums it up.
6) Of the two neonate saw-scales I claimed, one died within weeks of unknown causes, the other I still have (in fact, I'm going to go feed him now).
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RE: A somewhat different approach - sort of a surv
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by timberrattlesnake89 on September 18, 2006
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1. I got my first venomous snake was a mean southern copperhead and I got it at a reptile show. I already have working a number of venomous snakes before I kept my first venomous snake.
2. I was 15 when I got my first venomous snake.
3. I really stuided anything on keeping and handleing venomous snakes on the web. I read every single page of Allen Hunters 101, TT website on how to handle and work with venomous snakes. The first venomous snake I encountered was a big canebrake and right after that was several cottonmouths. I used my hook and tongs for both and did not start tailing until a lot later.
4. I did keep some mean tree boas, western coachwhips, and several rat snake speices.
5. I learn from others including Chuck Hurd and several other people over the past few years. Also I learned a lot from reading other peoples mistakes on a lot forums and stories.
6. I stil have him in my venomous rooms with around 10-15 others. He is still as mean as when I first got him.
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RE: A somewhat different approach - sort of a surv
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by petra on September 19, 2006
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:) Funny I've already wrote this story today in one other place trying to explain how important it is to answer questions if someone is asking even though he is 13. So I guess I can write it again :)
1) How did you get your first venomous snake?
Someone I worked with was trying to get rid of his WDB. He was drunk and got bitten so he didn't want him any more after a nice hospital bill. When I saw the snake I wanted to cry. That animal was barely 3ft long, supposedly 9 years old, fed only 4 times a year and one of the skinniest and saddest looking snakes I have ever seen. Kept in a nasty cage on aquarium gravel that smelled like an ashtray. So even though I had no intention on ever keeping venomous snake I couldn't help myself and I brought it home.
2) How old were you? 29
3) What preparation/training did you have before you got it?
None, I had no idea I will ever keep a venomous snake right up until the day before I brought him home. I knew absolutely nothing about venomous snakes. I have never even seen one before. I did keep all kinds of animals since I was 6, non-venomous reptiles since I was 16 so I knew how to take care of snakes. I had a few non-venomous at home. I did not know there are places like this one on the Internet though that I could just go and ask. I actually learned about keeping animals from books - not online. The only "training was what the guy told me" That I don't ever need to take the snake out - just put the screen lid between the snake and my hand...also told me that it has never been out of that cage so I'm guessing he used to rinse the gravel with the snake still in it. Oh I wished I knew a little more about handling him or at least someone who I could ask. I didn't know anyone who would be interested in snakes. I actually didn't even know anybody period as I'm not exactly a social person.
I guess the only reason I didn't get bitten was the fact that the snake was really bad tempered so he really made me keep my distance. And I do have some common sense. As far as handling I didn't dare to get anywhere close, I had no idea that the snake would be willing to actually sit on something to move it. And loose WDB in my house was out of question. So I took this hollow pole and drove a string through creating a loop at the end, that I would put around his neck and dragged him to separate container every time I was to clean because I just felt too uncomfortable getting my hand that close to him. I was always so scared it will hurt it's neck. When I finally found out that I can use a hook to transfer him it just made my day. I still feel sorry for the poor guy every time I think of it.
He was kept in an aquarium and I was too worried of him getting out so I had this metal strips put around with little locks at the end to make sure it's locked in. It worked really well. I had never had a close call with him or actually any venomous snake. Thanks to him I truly fell in love with venomous snakes.
4) If you went the route of keeping aggressive non-venomous snakes beforehand, how did that work out? I didn't
5) Did you have a mentor? who? how long before you got your first venomous? No
6) What happened to your first venomous snakes? Still have him, still mean and very beautiful
;)
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RE: A somewhat different approach - sort of a surv
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by Rob_Carmichael on September 19, 2006
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Sounds like fun, here we go:
1) How did you get your first venomous snake?
My first experience with venomous snakes occurred during my younger years romping around the Shawnee National Forest catching southern copperheads, cottonmouth and timber rattlers. After working at a zoo, I started my own wildlife facility and then got heavily into hot stuff....first actual captives were southern copperheads and timbers. From there it blossomes into all kinds of rattlesnakes, various vipers, and elapids.
2) How old were you?
I was 16 when I first started catching venomous but didn't start keeping venomous species (at my wildlife center) until my late 20's.
3) What preparation/training did you have before you got it?
Very little was available other than my work at a zoo, and, in getting some mentorship. There is no "manual for proper snake handling" out there so a lot of it was through talking to experts, picking their brains, getting a chance to observe them and see how they used various tools of the trade to keep them safe and the animals as stress free as possible.
4) If you went the route of keeping aggressive nonvenomous snakes beforehand, how did that work out?
I kept many aggressive non venomous snakes but it wasn't with the intention of working with hots; that sort of evolved over time. But, I have always been one of those people who took great pride in not getting bitten; even by aggressive species. I tried to develop an eye for detail to safety that has paid off now that I am working with hots on a daily basis. Learning how to focus, visualize and maintain a clear mind are critical ingredients when working with hots.
5) Did you have a mentor? who? how long before you got your first venomous?
My college professor, Dr. Michael Corn, was the first one to really get my hooked on herps in terms of a career path. He also exposed me to keeping venomous herps through the college and I knew at that time that one day I would be doing the same. Carl Kaufeld, though I never met, was another strong influence through his books. Back then, there were few good herp books but I read his at least a 100 times and could probably recite them word for word! I still enjoy reading his books.
6) What happened to your first venomous snakes?
My 20 year old southern copperhead finally passed away a few years ago....still my favorite venomous snake despite the many species I now work with. That snake taught me so much and feel very honored and priveleged for getting to work with her for so many years.
Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center
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RE: A somewhat different approach - sort of a surv
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by jared on September 19, 2006
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Jared L Watts
1) Eastern cottonmouth was proceding to consume an american eel on the bank of the hampton river, in my back yard and I attempted to catch them the cotton fled into the water. My first real bag and bring home
(my dorm) was late one night after a party on frat row, my friend noticed a snake lying across the road, a large copperhead. I pinned him on the concrete with a thorn bush (sucked) after repeatedly tailing him outta the grass (a little shakey after that), sock bagged him and took him home.
2) 13 Cottonmouth, 18 when I brought them home. I took many photots inbetween of horridus and aggies, but couldnt bring them back till I moved out.
3)lots of biological experience, 1000s of hours, fish to raptors and everything between..
4) I kept everything before hots, name it, grew up catching corn, kings, etc, moved to boas, pythons, all types of abnormal species, started working under the tabel at 14 for a large animal wholesaler helped out.
5) Man here goes a lengthy list, lol, Chuck F, sold me my first real "domesticated" so to speak hot, a gorgeous great basin i kept for years. The Morgan brothers and Big Bob were great connections when I first started (bagging evil indo kings at 19), then me and Roark discussed my first elapid (N.annunifera) at the 99 Columbia show, Gordon cates Chris harper,RC, and filthy, Ms TT, Erik K, Zac, the list goes on.....
6) The large male copperhead was later released after I have decided to dedicate myself to this, the great basin was later given to a good friend of mine.
Jared L Watts
Biologist
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RE: A somewhat different approach - sort of a surv
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by rickyduckworth on September 19, 2006
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1) bought a sub-adult southern copperhead and sub-adult canebrake rattler at the same time from a member on this site....i have always been interested and would catch and release prior to getting the two above as "keepers"
2) i was 20
3) i had grown up interested in snakes and only interacted with hots outdoors....tried sneaking non-hots into the house but my dad would catch me and always flip out....i grew up around snake haters and was the odd man out...i had no training and learned it all on the fly and from what i read in books (common sense is invaluable yet usually overlooked)
4) i'd keep anything and never tried to avoid being bitten by snakes i new were harmless
5) no mentor
6) kept them for a few years then let someone take them so that they could breed them in exchange for some more neonates.....
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RE: A somewhat different approach - sort of a surv
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by ALA_snake33 on September 20, 2006
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Here we go:
#1) My First Venomous Snake was a 3 Ft. Wild Caught Northern Copperhead (Agkistrodon c. mokasen), I found it on a Southern Facing Hill Side, in Early Spring, not 30 Yards from my Parents Home.
#2) I was either 17 or 18 when I started with the Copperhead.
#3) I had no Training whatsoever before Keeping this Snake, but I had Kept a lot of our Native Colubrids and Exotics Such as Boas and Pythons. These included Rat Snakes, Black Racers, Corn Snakes, Kingsnake’s, Garter Snakes, Ball Pythons, Burmese Pythons, Reticulated Pythons, and Boas.
#4) Well, being I Kept a lot of our Very Aggressive Non-Venomous, I think it probably did help a little. I do remember thinking to my self that me Keeping these Rat Snakes and Racers was probably the best thing I had ever done, considering how Hot Tempered the little Copperhead was. So, I would say “YES”, Keeping Hot-Tempered Non-Venomous did help a lot.
#5) As for having a Mentor before Keeping my First Hot, I never did. During my time at the Zoo, after I had Kept the Copperhead for about 4 Years. I did have someone to help me Learn the Ropes with the more Dangerous Venomous Species “Thankfully”.
#6) I lost my First Venomous Snake to Natural Causes and I still can not believe how attached I was to the Snake, but 7 Years was a Long Time. Since then I have Kept most all of Alabama’s Native Venomous at one time or another “the only exception would be the Coral Snake”. Maybe one Day I Will find me a Coral Snake “Fingers are Crossed” LOL.
PS: I would never ever recommend anyone Keeping any Venomous Snake, without some kind of Prior Training “even if it’s just a Copperhead”. Remember, Copperhead’s can Maim you for Life, so, there is no such thing as “it’s just a Copperhead” to me.
Be Safe Ya’ll, Happy Herping : Wally
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RE: A somewhat different approach - sort of a surv
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by vampire on September 20, 2006
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1) Caught him in my wife`s dogpen. A large Southern Copperhead male, that I had unknowingly cut part of his tail off earlier in the day, when mowing the pen.
2) I was 42, caught him July 4th 2004.
3) No training or preparation.
4) I have caught and released non venomous and venomous all my life. Always was fascinated by snakes. Never kept them.
5) Self taught. I read anything I can either in books or internet. I have a few people I consider "mentors" and more importantly friends. In no particular order, Chuck Hurd, John Zegel, and Karl Ponder. These I have met and correspond with on a fairly regular basis. They have all allowed me to pick their collective brains, and always try to help, and are never condescending. Another fellow I have corresponded with, that I respect alot is Joe Switalski. The big Copperhead male I caught in my dogpen, still have him, bought others at the 2004 Greenville show. And others from SHHS members.
6) Still have them, only been keeping 2 years.
Best regards,
Mike Williams aka Vampire
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RE: A somewhat different approach - sort of a surv
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by snakeguy101 on September 20, 2006
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1, i'm gonna get it from a friend who is an expierienced breeder
2, i'm 15 but won't have them for several years... legaly
3, i have been learning about them for years and work at the museum with their snakes
4, i have kept neroidia specimen for several years, not for this reason but i think that it has helped with my reflexes
5, i have a mentor for a year and i think it will continue for several years
6, n/a
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