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Immunization
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by Steve777 on November 9, 2002
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I have heard that Tim Friede and others have Immunized themselves using diluted levels of snake venom.
I also heard they felt they were less sick from common illnesses as a result. I was thinking that the immunizations may be acting like an antibiotic to kill Cell Wall-Deficient Bacteria in the blood stream which may be lowering our resistence to other diseases. I would like to receive these immunization injections myself and record the results, knowing that if properly done there is very little risk. Can anyone tell me of a place and/or person where I can get this substance in an already highly diluted state and ready for injection, as well as a protocol to guide me ?
Or if necessary, just a place that will sell it allowing me to prepare it myself.
Thank you
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RE: Immunization
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by bitisatrox on November 9, 2002
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DON'T DO IT!!!!!!!!
not worth the risk!
if you do this be aware that if you stop for whatever reason and are bitten you could die from the worse case of Anaphylaxis!!!!!
read this: http://www.venomousreptiles.org/articles/97
I dont mean to put you off but I have done a fair bit of research in this and It's just not worth the risk!
and im not just talking snakebite, snake venom is made of a lot of proteins and some of wich are found other things like some kinds of meat/fish! dont go messing with proteins!
stay safe!
ty
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RE: Immunization
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by Steve777 on November 10, 2002
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I was further wonderin if it would not be possible and even preferable to go the route of using a patch method of wpplying the diluted venom rather than by injection
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RE: Immunization
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by Steve777 on November 10, 2002
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I am aware of what you speak of. As I was a Medical Laboratory Technician for many years. But it is my understanding that one avoids this reaction to a greater extent, given that doses are highly diluted and in gradually increasing levels , much in the same way an allergist desensitizes you to something with dilute levels of the substance. He is in a sense reversing the allergic reaction response.
But you may bring to light a good point. I would probably want venom diluted at a much higher level then is usually administered. Also I was considering, for the same reason if dermal application would be better than as an injection.
Now I need to find some confirmation of your other point that by stopping the injections you worsen your situation. I worked in Blood Blank as well, and know a bit about this. From what I know it is not that you stop receiving an antigen that triggers a response. You will have a response as easily after a short after injection as you would after discontinuing the injections, once the body has hasa time to react. There are other factors such as the concentration of the antigen, the uniqueness of your own body chemistry, and other unknown factors, and this is partly why it is good to use highly dilute levels at first, both for letting the bodies immune system to get familiar with it and also to watch for untoward reactions early on to warn you to stop. However there is still much about the immune system which is still unknown and even worse, areas in which they think they know but are wrong. But I have always had an inquisitive mind.
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RE: Immunization
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by Steve777 on November 10, 2002
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Another question for bitisatrox or anyone else for that matter. Is there any record of anyone who has had Anaphylaxis from the immunizations shots.
One for validation of what you say and
Two for a heads up that their protocol may shed light on dilution levels that may be too high early on in administration.
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RE: Immunization
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by Steve777 on November 10, 2002
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Just for interesting fanfare on the topic for those who have not heard of it. There are many cases of Asian Snake handles over the years submitting to a ritual which was suppose to make them immune to snake bites. They would tattoo themselves with various signs of protection. It turns out that the ink used would have the snakes venom mixed in as part of the ritual. No doubt, the tattoo procedure introduced small levels of the venom into there system, making them somewhat immune.
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RE: Immunization
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by Rabies on November 10, 2002
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With immunization(diluted venom)you'd have to keep injecting yourself on a daily basis,so that your antibodies are permenantly circulating around your system waiting to combat their specific foriegn body.Once you stop,over a short period of time you anti bodies will stop being produced but your immune system will rember the temp plate for future infection.The problem with this is it takes our immune system a couple of days to produce enough specific antibodies to combat the infection,something you can't afford to wait for after being envenomated.
regards
John
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From my own conversations on the subject with Tim.
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by Naja_oxiana on November 10, 2002
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...you could get away with immunizations every 3-4 weeks but to keep the Ig levels up, he does them once a week. I will drop him an email about this thread and maybe he'll pop up and answer questions himself. The only thing that I'll say is this: the practice of hyerimmunization is not for everyone. It is *very* experimental and if you do not have a thourough understanding of immunology and human physiology, I would suggest augmenting your education befor eattempting it. I would also recomend having antivenom on hand incase you overdose on a booster shot.
Cheers
Roger
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RE: Immunization
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by Chris_Harper on November 10, 2002
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Bill Haast uses the weighed venoms of 32 species, and injects himself once a week. The venom is diluted 10,000 times from its regular strength. Its been a long time since I've talked to Tim about this, but I think he was only diluting to 700 times. I'm not going to describe the method that Tim uses to dilute his venom, as I don't want someone that has no idea what they are doing to try it and get it wrong. Personally, I wouldn't do it - since your chances of survival are very good with just antivenom. Bill Haast even said that his immunity only acts as a buffer, and the most venomous snakes would kill him without treatment anyway. The key to surviving is to stock your own antivenom for exotic species, get to an ER right away, and have a treatment plan in writing to take with you to the hospital.
Chris Harper
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RE: Immunization
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by Steve777 on November 10, 2002
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Sorry folks, but I think you may misunderstand my purpose. I do not want to take the snake venom to protect me from a snake bite. I have no intention of getting bit. So my purpose is not the same as a snake handler. What I am fascinated by is the report from these men that there over all health ends up better than the average person as a result of taking the venom. Just as many people use bee venom to cure arthritis, I think snake venom may cure a host of potential illnesses before the can start. The only rational I can come up with that fits the circumstances is that Many illnesses are not caused by genetics as many doctors purport but to Mycobacterium or cell-wall deficient bacteria that are usually never detected unless darkfield microscopy is done. And then you find that a surprising number of people are infected with the rate increasing with old age. And The snake venom in a diluted form is acting as an antibiotic to render these bacteria unable to reproduce just like what happens with any antibiotic
Now, do all the previous arguments still hold ? I mean all the talk of having to keep a super high level of antibodies to the venom. It seems to me to be immaterial to my purpose. If I was still a lab tech I would experiment with doing a traditional Bacterial sensitivity plate to a few toxic bacterium to see at what level the venom kill them. Normally the only thing I know that works well for mycobacterium is the antibiotic doxycycline, but it must be taken for months to completely remove the infection from the body. It would be good if a substitute could be found.
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