|
1-10 of 16 messages
|
Page 1 of 2
Next
|
|
VA Arlington WA post article
|
Reply
|
|
by tigers9 on May 17, 2008
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
I think the reporter did 'fair to all' good NON senstational job letting the snake owner present his side to the story.
I was contacted by the WAPOST writer after she saw my letter to the editor on the subject in different magazine. Although I had no clue about the identity of the VA snake owner, I emailed privately to many on this forum begging you to talk to this reporter and help her,as my instict was telling me to help her,... no idea who is the most repsonsible for gettign her in touch with the snake owner.., but i want to THANK you for listening to me and giving this reproter a chance.
And we shoudl thank her for being fair:
schulteb@washpost.com
Z
==
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/05/17/AR2008051701531.html?sub=new
Va. Snake Saga Rattles Residents, Ends in Ban
By Brigid Schulte
Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, May 18, 2008; A01
Two years ago, Larry Koskinen stepped on a rattlesnake in his garage while putting away his lawn mower. Then Barb Misra spotted a five-foot snake in her garden. And last week, a 4-year-old nearly whacked an exotic serpent slithering along the sidewalk with her doll stroller.
Unnerved residents of the usually peaceful Madison Manor neighborhood in North Arlington are convinced the serpents escaped from what they call the Snake House, the brick house on Quintana Street with its manicured lawn, shades drawn and Christmas lights still up. It's where Peter T. Nguyen has lived for the past five years with his collection of rare, exotic -- and deadly -- snakes stacked neatly in clear plastic containers under warming lights in his garage.
But it took a plumber, a broken hot tub and containers of dead rattlers on a porch before the County Board decided to move swiftly to ban venomous snakes and other poisonous reptiles.
"This is not one of the harder votes that I've had to make," said board member Jay Fisette (D) after the unanimous vote yesterday. Although one private snake breeder suggested adopting a regulated permit system instead of an outright ban, Fisette said the urban nature of the county made that "impractical." Neighbors were unhappy that the ban would not apply to such non-venomous snakes as boas or pythons. But Fisette said the county is forming a regionwide task force to explore a wider ban on exotic or dangerous creatures.
Nguyen has 30 days to get his poisonous snakes out of the county.
The snake in Misra's garden was identified as a Northern Pine, a rare breed known to live in Virginia only in the Blue Ridge mountains. Melissa Koenig yanked her 4-year-old away from what turned out to be a New Guinea ground boa, or viper boa. A shovel-wielding neighbor called animal control, then trapped it in a recycling bin. Only the snake that Koskinen stepped on and killed, a juvenile Mexican Lancehead rattler, was venomous.
"This isn't about snakes," said Koskinen, a father of three, who lives next door to the Snake House. "This is about protecting our children. That my neighbor has something from Mexico or Africa that could kill my child violates the social compact in a profound way."
It took animal control more than an hour to identify the viper boa, known as the harmless "lazy snake" in its native Papua New Guinea for its slothful ways. But what if it had been venomous? Koskinen asked. What if it had bitten the 4-year-old with the angelic curls?
For a child, you often have 20 minutes, not 60, to figure out what kind of antivenin to use, much less find it, herpetologists say. Poison control officials said local hospitals stock antivenin for native venomous snakes: rattlesnakes, water moccasins and copperheads. Anything else would have to be found at the zoo.
Even though two of the loose snakes were found next door to his house and one in a yard that backs up to his, Nguyen says it would be "an impossibility of physics" for the snakes to have been his. He doesn't collect those species, he said, favoring instead rare African pit vipers. And those he does collect are kept in polyethylene terephthalate boxes, the kind of plastic containers used in labs to hold rodents, secured from the outside with bolts. "You have to undo the bolts with your fingers. . . . It's downright impossible for them to get out, much as a goldfish would have the potential to leave its bowl and go scampering about the community," he said.
He said he has no idea where the rogue snakes could have come from. (All are now on ice at local nature centers.) But viper boas are commonly sold as pets, he said. "Any kid could have saved his paper route money and gone to a pet store and gotten one," he said. And if the Mexican rattler were his, "I would have been out there tearing up the neighborhood looking for it," he said. "They're fairly uncommon and not a thing to lose lightly. It would be like misplacing a $1,000 money order."
Neighbors said they had been keeping their fears to themselves, trying to work things out among themselves, the "Arlington Way." Nguyen and Koskinen tell how when a sickening stench wafted throughout Koskinen's home, he asked Nguyen to do something about it. Nguyen apologized and explained that he had been on vacation when the freezer where he keeps rodents to feed the snakes broke down.
Then the plumber showed up.
On March 11, a plumber came unannounced to Nguyen's house to fix the leaky hot tub on the back deck. When he spied 20 or so dead snakes in containers nearby, he frantically dialed 911. Within minutes, police cars and the animal control van screeched up in front of the house and blocked the street. Nguyen said officers asked him whether they could come in. He said he replied no; he hadn't done anything wrong. He said he explained that he had taken the dead snakes out of the freezer, at the request of a herpetology researcher, to begin to "skeletonize" them.
For more than five hours, officers milled around Nguyen's property in what neighbors call the Snake Standoff. Officers peered through the windows of the garage with a scope. Whispered reports of labels reading "Black Mamba," "Boa" and "Rattlesnake" electrified the wide-eyed crowd that had gathered across the street.
Using the laptop in her van, animal control Officer Alice Burton searched local ordinances. The District, Falls Church, Fairfax City and Prince William and Prince George's counties ban possession of venomous snakes. (Alexandria is considering a ban.) Under Arlington County code, it is illegal to "display, exhibit, handle, or use any poisonous or dangerous reptile in such a manner as to endanger the life or health of any person." But that didn't cover dead snakes by the hot tub or live ones in the garage. And although neighbors did mention the loose exotic snakes, there was no way to prove where they had come from. "It's not like they're stamped with an address or wear a tag like a dog," Deputy County Manager Marsha Allgeier said.
As neighborhood pressure mounted, the county convened a task force and put a venomous reptile ban on the fast track. "The consequences of venomous snakes escaping and hurting someone were too great," Allgeier said. "We felt we needed to draw the line."
Nguyen, 39, is a quiet, private man -- neighbors profess seeing little of either him or the man he shares the house with -- with a hobby that he is well aware few understand. But to tell him to stop collecting snakes, he said, would be like telling Van Gogh not to paint.
Nguyen, who writes and edits advertising copy, would not say how many snakes he collects, only that it varies with births and deaths. County officials reported at civic association meetings that he at one time had "well over 100." Nguyen said his collection has ranged from the harmless, startlingly green tree boa, to the puff adder, a favorite, to a Field's horned viper, whose venom he described as "thermonuclear."
He said he has been fascinated with snakes since before he learned to walk. And he has been collecting them since he was 8, when he caught his first venomous snake, a baby western cottonmouth, while on vacation.
His snakes are specimens, not pets. A snake is not something you get emotionally attached to, he explained. You research its history, anatomy and physiology. You observe its behavior. You don't handle it; you "encounter" it. Like a stamp or tropical fish collector, you scour the Internet and international dealer sites to round out the genus or species lines of particular interest. And, if you're like Nguyen, there is nothing like the thrill of being able to raise and breed the kind of snake no one else can.
Fea's vipers, "dazzling" bright blue natives of Himalayan cloud forests with red striping, usually die in captivity. Nguyen has three. A rare Ethiopian small-eyed viper with green and black patterns is considered the "Holy Grail" in snake collecting circles. "Only one person in the world has kept one alive for more than six months, and that was me," he said.
Nguyen said he has never been bitten by a venomous snake. The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention reports about 7,000 venomous snake bites a year in the United States, 15 of which are fatal. And if that were ever to happen, he said, he has access to a private store of antivenin. "When handled responsibly, there's no contest between man and snake," he said. "They've got a brain the size of a lentil. If it bests you, you should think about keeping hamsters."
Still, since the plumber incident, Nguyen said he has been quietly moving his snakes to other locations. He won't say where: "I've had enough trouble here. I don't want it to follow." He has promised that the county can inspect his house to make sure it's empty.
Maybe then, he said, the neighborhood can once again be at peace.
|
| |
|
RE: VA Arlington WA post article
|
Reply
|
|
by MoccasinMan on May 18, 2008
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
I agree, she did a very fair job. Here is a copy of my email to her.
AW
Ms. Schulte,
I just wanted to commend you on doing a very fair and well thought out piece on the venomous reptile issue. It is easy for many to react emotionally and with fear in addressing these issues. It is wonderful that you took the time to do this topic justice in the face of all the sensationalism surrounding this case. I’m sorry Arlington declined my offer of assistance in creating a regulatory framework instead of an outright ban, I hope they will consider it if they decide to address boas and pythons. I appreciate your professionalism.
Andrew Wyatt
US Association of Reptile Keepers
252-207-1041
Andrew@usark.org
|
| |
|
RE: VA Arlington WA post article
|
Reply
|
|
by Chris_Harper on May 18, 2008
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Quote: "It took animal control more than an hour to identify the viper boa, known as the harmless "lazy snake" in its native Papua New Guinea for its slothful ways. But what if it had been venomous? Koskinen asked. What if it had bitten the 4-year-old with the angelic curls?"
Wow. How can you argue with that kind of hysteria? Somedays I'm so glad that I live in a place where I am surrounded by forests and not people.
|
| |
|
RE: VA Arlington WA post article
|
Reply
|
|
by atwageman on May 18, 2008
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
I feel blessed. Here in NC I live on 16 acres with a combination of trees and open field. Plus I have creek that runs through my property. Nice herp habitat if you ask me. I do have neighbors, but they leave me alone. Plus none of my neighbors are safety nazi soccer moms or dads. They actually let their kids outside to play and ride around on 4 wheelers.
If someone from my local law enforcement or animal control wanted to visit my house, I would be more than willing to let them in. All my venomous snakes are housed in secure, lockable, escape proof housing. Plus my house don't smell like a poorly maintained pet store either. 1st class all the way for me.
Some years back, my county was proposing an exotic animal ban, but the issue never saw the light of day, thank God. Plus I have a relationship with my local animal control. Most reports of snakes on the front lawn or in the garage get reffered to me to handle if I'm available. My local animal control only deals with dogs and cats and wildlife over 50 pounds.
Awhile back I picked up a rat snake from some folks whose 7 year old duaghter had found and was holding it like a pet. The parents of course were about to freak out and go ballistic. The 7 year old was disappointed that she couldn't keep the snake. The parents were such anal germaphobe safety nazi's it wasn't even funny.
I felt sorry for the little girl, because she just might have some natural herpetology skills waiting to be discovered and nurtured. But instead her parents are more interested in soccer games and dance recitetals. I have nothing against soccer, I'm just using it as comparison.
|
| |
|
RE: VA Arlington WA post article
|
Reply
|
|
by tigers9 on May 19, 2008
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
How many of you venomous keepers have kids in the house (with or without angelic curls)?
I don't see any kids being killed by captive venomous snakes, I must assume there are some keepers who have kids AND venomous reptiles in the hosue, time to start educating the scared masses, write letters to editors how you safely/reponsibly keep both IN the house, etc...
Z
|
| |
|
RE: VA Arlington WA post article
|
Reply
|
|
by atwageman on May 19, 2008
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
I agree with what your saying tigers9. Pictures of secure/lockable escape proof caging would help a lot. It would help prove to the maases and media that not all of us hot keepers are boneheads.
I'm of the thought that we really need to help police ourselves though. Anytime we visit another hot keepers facilities, we should call'em out if we see questionable caging. Now I know that's easier said than done. Because we don't want to step on toes and burn a friendship. But we don't need snakes that are not native to a particular area roaming the neighborhood either.
I don't care if someone makes their own cages or uses a cage off the shelf, but for crying out loud people, it's not hard to put a lock on the thing.
Now I know for some people, collecting snakes is like smoking cigarettes. They are addictive and next thing you know a person has way more snakes than they can financialy afford proper housing for.
My posts may come off a little arrogant at times, but I'm tired of hearing stories about how someones exotic snake got loose in the neighborhood.
|
| |
|
RE: VA Arlington WA post article
|
Reply
|
|
by tigers9 on May 19, 2008
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Also don't forget, when you present your own story, your own experience, that is a FACT, when/if you say you have been doing hots X number of years and had X number of kids and ZERO dead kids, that is a NON disputable fact, when somebody is passing these bans, they r are based on hysteria and emotions.
Hope our lawmakers will start considering facts in my lifetime when making new laws.
Also, until now we owners were not presenting lawmakers any hard factual data and proofs, we were hiding, scared of AR and some having bad experience with journalists, afraid to be judged for the PC incorrect choice in pets.
Until recently all the public and lawmakers had was HSU$ and other AR propaganda.
You snake guys need to get on offense,offer media/public an alternative to th ehysteria BEFORE the hysteria starts, get friendly with your local animal congtrol and editors, educate them before bad times, educate them during peace so to speak,...when people are mor eopen minded... if in fact u have kids and they are surviving, that is awesome proof about the ‘safety’ of your hobby.
Show the world not everybody is an idiot on exotic hobby
Z
|
| |
|
RE: VA Arlington WA post article
|
Reply
|
|
by Cro on May 19, 2008
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
I hear that the whole venomous herp community was represented at the Arlington hearing by one Muffdaddy2.
At least Muffy put up an effort. I give him credit for that. However, I am not sure I want to know what he said to the Arlington County Board.
What if some real venomous herpers had showed up ? What if they had brought along an attorney ? Would it have made a difference ? What if USARK or VAARK had showed up in force ?
Nguyen did not show up, and has allready removed his venomous snakes. Perhaps he thought it was a lost cause ?
Why did other venomous keepers not turn out and fight for their cause ? How many of them are there in that area ?
I am sure there will be copy-cat Counties in Virginia who propose the same venomous ban in the near future.
And you know they will come back and add to the newly passed law, to include those nasty, dangerous pythons, and boas, and monitor lizards. Can't be too far off. After all, those soccer moms don't need their kids getting eaten by giant constrictors, do they ????
Are you venomous keepers in Virginia going to get together and form some kind of organization to try to preserve what is left of your rights ???? I once thought there might be a VAARK in the making, but what happened to that? What happened to the folks who were going to set it up ?
Have any of you in Virginia contacted Andrew at NCARK for help ?
Any chance that USARK will eventually get off the ground ? That could be a good thing. Would be great to have an National Organization that represented reptile keepers from every State. Don't seem to see a web site for them yet. PIJAC is out there, but what are they doing ? Reptile dealers know of them, but the general reptile community does not know them, and is not a member of that organization. What ever happened to those who were to bring USARK and PIJAC together with someone like Dave Barker ???
I don't want to seem like I am complaining, however, this was a hot topic in January, when the proposed USFWS bans were announced. The folks at PIJAC and USARK do not seem to be keeping the reptile community informed as to what they are doing, if anything at all, and what progress is being made. Are efforts still being made to form a united reptile community with the power of a National audience ? Or has the initial enthusiasm been lost, and nothing beign done?
I would love to hear that things are still going on behind the scenes, that will eventually blossom into a united organization with some clout in legislation.But it is not showing up on the reptile forums.......
If you do not keep folks informed of progress, many will not care very much down the road when you eventually get things rolling.
Down they tumble, County by County, State by State, Community by Community, One by One ..............
Kind of reminds me of Dominoes
Best Regards JohnZ
|
| |
|
RE: VA Arlington WA post article
|
Reply
|
|
by MoccasinMan on May 19, 2008
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
USARK was talking with Arlington about adopting our model legislation... unfortunately their mind was made up. We also talked extensively with Ms. Shulte from the Washington Post as evidenced by her fair treatment of the topic and understanding of the keepers side of this issue. As far as where we have been... this will not be moving as fast as NCARK did. We are doing everything by the book and creating a first class organization that will represent the ENTIRE reptile community as never before. PIJAC will never lobby on behalf of venomous. We have a Board of Directors that spans the spectrum of top industry leaders. Once we have our First Annual BOD meeting next week and unveil our website we will be ready to get down to work. Dave Barker is working with us in our science and research efforts. Please be patient, this is much more complex than NCARK... but it will be much more powerful as well. We have to be very careful. This will be a monumentally positive force in our industry very soon.
Andrew
|
| |
|
RE: VA Arlington WA post article
|
Reply
|
|
by Cro on May 19, 2008
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Andrew, it is great to hear that USARK is still on track.
I always figgured that PIJAK would sell out venomous keepers.
Keep us updated from time to time to let folks know that the work is continuing.
Good Luck bringing it all toghether.
Best Regards JohnZ
|
| |
|
Email Subscription
You are not subscribed to this topic.
Subscribe!
My Subscriptions
Subscriptions Help
Check our help page for help using
, or send questions, comments, or suggestions to the
Manager.
|
