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Speak Out: Where do you stand on “free handling” of venomous snakes.

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Havic on 2003-04-23
I do not think anyone should be free handling hots. They have a brain and just because the snake is not showing any sign of aggression doesnt mean that it will not bite. I have personally watched a few people get bitten free handling CB and raised hots. Every time it happened the first thing the handler said is I have raised this snake from a baby and I do this all the time. It wont bite. Then the next thing they say is call 911!!! It can happen at any moment. Everyone that keeps hots please be careful and have respect for your own life and respect for the rest of the venomous keepers out there to be careful. The keeping of venomous reptiles is a privalege not a right. The govt. could ban it at anytime and if people are getting bitten because of free handling and irresponsable keeping methods they will.

Havic

vemon on 2003-04-19
free handling is a touchy subject for many people. personally i do not disapprove of free handlers but myself would not do it. i like life too much to play chicken. i mean you are in the death chair just hoping there is a short in the electrical system. but i have friends that free handle and i dont see the problem. i do believe that if you are to free handle snakes around people you definitley let them know of the dangers and risks you are taking. some people admire the thrill and want to jump in but do not fully understand the consiquences. but i am in strong belief that there is a difference between venomous keepers and venomous handlers, a big difference. be careful and good luck!

sceniccityreptiles on 2003-04-18
Guys, do not bother responding to ridiculous posts made by anonymous posters. I assure you that I will delete them as soon as they are brought to my attention. I have no intention of allowing this forum to digress to such a level. Thank you.

Chuck Hurd
SHHS Speak outs Manager

Craig23 on 2003-04-15
I think that if you choose to free handle your own animals at home, then fair enough. Some venomous snakes are very placid, more so than most pythons. I only have experience with elapids, not vipers etc, and in the case of some elapids its very easy to judge their attitude at any given time. Of cause the thing to be carfull of is that people dont get the wrong idea and go pick up some wild snake thinking it wont bite.... I guess its all about common scence. I personally always pick a snake up by tailing with a hook. If the snake is inqisative and is not agressive, ill let it wonder up to my arm and loose the hook. Using the way the snake behaves on the hook as the judging factor. However, i only do this with the lesser of the "dangerous elapids" such as some Pseudechis, and its never to "show off" to mates. It fasinates me how placid some of these dangerous snakes are. And in some cases, with some species, i think there is less risk of being bitten than there is risk of injury in many other hobbies or pass times.

jay72 on 2003-04-13
While I do not condone free handling, I have been in some peoples company(Nick Nistico for one) that seem to have a knack for free handling. I have seen Nick free handle several Gaboons. It is based on the Gaboons placidness as well as breaking the feeding response initially with a hook and proper hand placement. It is not just grabing the snake out of the tank, that would be crazy.

Hotherps on 2003-04-13
I have not read through all of the posts on this subject yet, but here is my 2 cents for what its worth.

I do not make a habit of free handling venomous snakes for the simple reason that I would be in a lot of trouble with my employers and the Health & Safety Executive if I were seen to be working in a dangerous manner. That is not to say that I do not have the skills… I most certainly do. I have caught a number of snakes overseas without any tools.

I am also well respected amongst UK film companies for my work in wrangling snakes for various programmes, (guides to Cobras, Rattlers, Vipers etc and footage for Irwin and O’Shea documentaries) were I do in fact find it much easier to free handle on set. There is often so much equipment around you that hooks & grabs get in the way….They can also cast shadows and stray light due to there reflective surfaces.

Without sounding egotistical, there is just simply no one here in the UK that puts in anything like the hours and the amount of handling that I do. (I am also the only person that is extracting venom on a weekly basis) I have probably done over half a million handling / cleaning and feeding procedures and tens of thousands of venom extractions……. I guess I make snake handling (with hooks and/or tailing) look very easy…..BUT I am never complacent when working with these creatures, as I know , first hand how nasty a bite can be.

jay72 on 2003-04-12
Its quite apparent that there is a lot of varied opinions on this subject. I personally do not free hand any vipers but i do tail them ONLY WHEN NECCESARY. I do not feel that the risk of free handling a viper is worth the reward. Its not worth losing an arm if the snake is having a bad day. There is a way to free hand certain elapids, but again it is not neccesary. If anybody is in the S. Florida area and wants to see one of the worlds best snake handlers(who has worked with fish and game, national geographic and customs) perform this with large Kings, i could arrange a SHHS group visit to the facility that consists of over 100 hots from all over the world(in addition to several exotic mammals). It would be a great educational experience for everyone.

Chris_Harper on 2003-04-11
It's a pointless risk. It doesn't make any sense to me.

CH

NickVenom911 on 2003-04-11
In response to Taipan78,
If you know so much then you obviously know that all snakes have different personalities, duh! And yes for your info. I can read their body language! I understand Gaboons obviously far better than you and between you and your boys and their 300 years of experience, I could show you gentleman some things in a few hours that you wont learn from any books or videos. Don’t knock my style until you see it for yourself. And as for the snake in my profile, it was not my snake and I freehand others Gaboons often. I don’t have time to explain the knowledge I have on the Bitis genus but if you are interested in learning and not hating I would be glad to explain all my points of view and my level of experience. I obviously don’t just pick up Gaboons without having a greater knowledge over them, im not an idiot. And oh by the way Gaboons can not strike to their own stomachs when being supported in a level position. And to people who really know what they are doing, body language can tell a lot and they are more predictable than you think. Don’t be so harsh to other techniques. I believe in safe handling as much as the next guy. And I also believe in learning from others, but since you obviously already know it all I wouldn’t want to waste your time or my own.

TAIPAN78 on 2003-04-11
Hey NV911,
You should probally change your name to "oh S!, call 911" if you are to continue such unsafe handleing practices. Though you may get away with it while free handleing YOUR Gabbies and YOUR other large vipers your argument is already bogus because they are YOUR animals. Everyone will know their animals well and know weather they can get away with it or not but you wont know them all and you wont even be able to predict your own animals intentions all of the time. Ive seen gabbies, which incedently were over 10 years of age, that would bite you 3 time before you even got you hand close enough to touch em!! Considering that any bitis can come back over their bodies, upside down, and in anyother direction inorder to tag you, the only reason they dont is because they dont feel threatend. However, what happens when you try that crap with one that does? Do you have mind reading ablities? The pyhsical abbilites are already there for the snake, what makes you so damn good that they wont bite you? Is it that you can read their body lanuge or something? Ok, maybe you can but by you being a bitis keeper, you should darn well know that gabbies show little to no indication before they strike so how can you tell? I get it, maybe you are so darn quick that you can avoide a strike? Na, that would make you superman for I know of no mere humam that can out run any pitviper or viper strike.

Also, as for your argument of profesionals free handleing, personaly, I have never seen Bill Hasat do what I would call free handleing aka what your doing in your profile picture. Ive seen him grab cobras behind their heads with his bare hand in order to restrain them but Ive never seen him wrap one around his neck or hold one un restarined in his arms!(I will admit, I know very little about Bill so if he partakes in free handleing to an extent other then what I mentioned then im sorry for giveing bogus info)

Last but not least, you say free handleing large vipers in the safest way to do it for the snake and just look at how long some of these constantly free handled snake live(not your exact words)? Well, great for them but hell, my 5 1/2 A.p.conanti is 14 years old and one of the meanest sobs I have ever worked with. He has never been free handled(by anyone alive today:-)LOL)and is as healthy as can be. I agree that one needs to support a large bodied viper corectly in order not to hurt the animal but doing it with your hands is retarted! Hello, theres this thing called a python hook, designed specificly for that purpose. I use it weekly. Works great!

Ok, last thing I swear. Though I dont have the vast experince you listed above myself, combine me with BGF, WW, CH, Karl, Sean P, Nighflight99, York and Derek Morgan and the countless others I know and respect in this hobby who share my same veiws with regards to careless handleing and you probally have well overn 200 years of experince and 3 million snakes combind!

Bottom line, there is no real reason to free handle. If Bill and others want to do it, more power to them but for you to come here and make it sound as if free handleing is the only safe way to maintain these animals makes you look foolish, projects the wrong image to all of the learning hot keepers which frequent this site and is quite frankly insulting. Have your opinion, do what you do, just dont call us who have a different and well founded opinion on the matter amatures.

Regards,
Jeremy

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