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Protherics against Antivenom Bank for US Snakes
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by Phobos on October 5, 2005
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Fougera Inc. (CroFab)
Hello,
Thank you for your response. We are holding a CroFab Advisory Panel meeting in San Diego. This is not a general snakebite education meeting.
I looked at your website. Just so that you understand, our company is not in favor of the antivenom bank model for snakes indigenous to the United States. We do understand the purpose of this antivenom bank for non-native snakes.
We do not believe in outsourcing FDA approved drugs which are readily available through a drug wholesaler. The potential for delay in therapy flies contrary to our current snakebite educational process that time can be quite critical in treating snakebite, and any barrier to rapid therapy could be catastrophic to the patient.
______________________________________________________MY REPLY:
Thanks for your reply. That's okay the NEAVB does not plan to stock CroFab. We will stock Bioclon as it works better than Crofab on NA Rattlesnakes, besides it's not priced out of site. You may sell it at wholesale to Hospitals but they in turn mark it up thousands of percent. One person was charged $30,000 for 10 vials used for a Cottonmouth bite. This is just one example of rediculus predatory practices that result from not having the serum supplied by member owned banks.
Thanks for the information.
Al Coritz,
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RE: Protherics against Antivenom Bank for US Snake
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by timberrattlesnake89 on October 5, 2005
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I think its those damn pharmacuetical companies that are one of the many problems in this country. The only reason they don't want you to sell it is that they want to rip off hospitals. I am glad you decided to chose a more effected anti-venin Bioclone.
Phillip
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RE: Protherics against Antivenom Bank for US Snake
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by tj on October 5, 2005
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"I think its those damn pharmacuetical companies that are one of the many problems in this country."
How so? It's not the Pharm companies that are ripping people off. Crofab goes for around $900 per vial, but is marked up almost 3 times at hospitals. That's not the Pharm companies doing it. Who's to say that Bioclon, if and when it's approved, won't be marked up 300 or 400%? Just because it's sold at a certain cost doesn't mean it will be billed by the hospital at cost.
Why else do you think they are one of the problems in this country? I work for one of those "damn pharmaceutical companies", so I'm curious to here the wisdom of a 16 year old.
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RE: Protherics against Antivenom Bank for US Snake
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by RepFan on October 5, 2005
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Al,
I am shocked at Crofab's reply; but commend and admire your efforts on taking on such a monumental task. - Keep fighting the good fight! -
~ Todd
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RE: Protherics against Antivenom Bank for US Snake
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by Dadee on October 6, 2005
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Al,
I too, commend your efforts of taking on Goliath, however, I can also see the monumental scope of doing so. Those Goliaths, are harbored by our congressmen who take large sums of money from lobbyists who are backed by those same Goliaths. Prime example, look at Tom DeLay right now. He's being indicted by Ronnie "woo woo" Earle, who may be able to get a slap on the wrist applied, but don't count Tom out. Why? Because he's backed by HUGE money, "Pharm" companies, Oil companies, utilities, the list goes on.
I don't mean to discourage you in any way, but do wish to point out, who Goliath really is. These giants are harbored. Now if we were to take the same approach and harbored someone who has committed a crime, we are then guilty of harboring. You don't see the same thing happening in our government. Goliath of this magnitude deserves to be taken down by yet another Goliath, which is to say, our government. The point here is, if our "member owned" AV Banks, had the "cash" for the coffers so to speak, we too could be in bed with the gov't, and have our own agendas pushed, against the wishes of said Goliaths.
No harm meant, only painting a picture here,
Matt
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RE: Protherics against Antivenom Bank for US Snake
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by earthguy on October 6, 2005
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"How so? It's not the Pharm companies that are ripping people off. Crofab goes for around $900 per vial, but is marked up almost 3 times at hospitals. That's not the Pharm companies doing it."
OK then TJ, how much does it actually cost to produce CroFab? $900 per vial? Probably not. The Pharms are making good money too. Rather than pointing fingers and bereating teenagers for being teenagers (incidently, why do you assume that a person is ignorant just because they are young?), perhaps we could listen to the legitamate complaints of the people that are most affected by price gouging (and I do beleive that this is price gouging). This country requires free public education, but we don't give the same consideration to health care. I am not saying that Pharms are evil. In fact they are a VITAL part of the health care system. I do, however, feel that EVERY aspect of our health care system could use a little reform. Let the Pharms and the hospitals and the doctors make a little money, but not at the over-expense of "Joe Shmoe".
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RE: Protherics against Antivenom Bank for US Snake
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by tj on October 6, 2005
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Does it cost $900 to produce one vial? Probably not, But the amount of money researching, developing, and producing ANY FDA drug, is far more than one thinks. It doesn't just roll off a production line. It's easy for people that aren't in the pharm business to throw stones when they don't know the costs that go into making the products. Do pharm companies make money? Sure, just like any other large business in the US, they have to, it's one of the things that keeps the economy going, money re-circulating, and seperates us from third world nations. It's easy to complain how people are getting rich when not realizing how good we really have it here. There are far more problems in the US than a company wanting to make money.
"This country requires free public education, but we don't give the same consideration to health care."
Huh? Free education? Apparently you're not a home-owner. I pay taxes for schools and education, yet I have no kids. It's one of the joys of owning a home.
You may not be paying for kids' education, but it's far from free. Once again we go back to people not knowing the costs of making a product, this one being education.
"perhaps we could listen to the legitamate complaints of the people that are most affected by price gouging"
Price-gouging? How do you feel that it's price-gouging on the Pharm companies part? They're not the ones that are marking up the price of AV 400%. And at 16, how do you feel he is one of the ones that are most affected by it?
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RE: Protherics against Antivenom Bank for US Snake
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by Rabies on October 6, 2005
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When you think of the process taken to develop CroFab, by cutting out the bits of protien and anything else thats not required to nuetralize the venom, can run up a large cost. When you look at antivenoms of Asia, the serum is taken from the horse and packed in a vial (basic)and causing then the high rate of allergic reactions and serum sickness. Some were around 80%. Australia is the same, high quality antivenom( better than CroFab) at a high price.
John
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RE: Protherics against Antivenom Bank for US Snake
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by Dadee on October 6, 2005
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I find it a bit ironic that Tj, looks at profiles to gather info to know who he's talking to, but yet, himself has no info on his profile...ah, the pleasures of being anonymous.
chuckling.
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RE: Protherics against Antivenom Bank for US Snake
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by Phobos on October 6, 2005
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Geeeze Guys..
You think that we were talking about freehandling or venomoids.
Okay, I don't have the time to comment on all of the directions this thread is going be here's a few comments.
I have been involved with scientific/medical research all my adultlife. Good scientific research is NOT cheap. Large multinational pharmaceutical companies spend millions of $ to develop one single drug. I have no problem for them to "make a profit" My problem is the difference in pricing from place to place for the same drug. It seems the "richer" countries subsidze the not so fortunate. This is why some people from the US fill their perscriptions in Mexico or Canada.
School for the masses is not free here in the US either. Many local property taxes are assessed in communities to pay for a non-funtional school system, so kids are sent out in the world and still don't read & write.
The world is in a hell of a mess and it isn't getting any better.
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