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gravid or not? southern copperhead
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by rickyduckworth on November 22, 2005
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ok, obtained this female in july......has refused food 11 times since then......was told that she was possibly gravid and she shows all the signs that i know to look for........she's got the lumpy, full mid/back section.....she hasn't seemed interested in food.....she doesn't look like she hasn't eaten since july either....but c'mon, is it even possible she's gravid after this long........she's been the same cage, alone from the others, and she seems perfectly healthy otherwise.....she has darkened quite a bit over the past 3 months too.....she seems like a perfectly happy, healthy snake.......i've tried all types of food, f/k, f/t, larger, smaller, different colors, etc.......but she has no interest in it whatsoever, and she just appears gravid........she surely isn't emaciated, so what gives?
anything else it could possibly be? would it hurt to treat her for parasites? i can't get a stool sample because she won't eat, and if i force feed her and she is gravid, then that stress may harm her and/or the babies.........any suggestions?
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RE: gravid or not? southern copperhead
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by mike_anthony on November 22, 2005
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Copperheads typically have a gestation period of 105 to 110 days. Even while gravid, most snakes which are ovoviviparous continue to accept food until shortly before giving birth, usually ceasing to feed four to six weeks before. Keeping this in mind, it is possible that your snake might not be gravid. Let me ask you a couple of questions. First, is the snake still drinking water? Second, is your snake still producing uric acid (white, round, chalky looking deposits)? Third, at what rate is the snake thickening, has it always had the same girth or has it become larger as time progressed? Also, has the snake become lethargic, or has there been an increase in activity? Agkistrodon are known to utilize sperm retention, so there is the possibility that your snake became gravid some time after you received it, even though she was not housed together with a male. On the other hand, there is the possibility of an underlying illness which may be causing the refusal of food as well as the thickening of the snake. Impaction, cloacaliths, fecaliths and many other problems can cause similar symptoms.
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RE: gravid or not? southern copperhead
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by mike_anthony on November 22, 2005
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As to your question regarding internal parasites....Captive snakes usually become a "dead end" host for worms and protozoa. If you keep their cage clean, most internal parasites will run their life cycle after 30 to 45 days. If you do not practice proper cage cleaning, there is an increased chance that reintroduction of parasitic larvae will occur. Thus, the cycle begins again. Also, keep the temperatures in the cages correct, this will help the snake to maintain a more healthy immune system. Most parasite overloads happen when temperatures are too low and the snake's metabolism slows down which affects its ability to combat infections or illness.
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RE: gravid or not? southern copperhead
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by rickyduckworth on November 22, 2005
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she had been strictly nocturnal up until about early october.......and even then, she'd be only marginally active at night....now though, she is VERY active at night and occasionally during the day, anything but lethargic........always been a VERY well tempered snake too, and in the past 3 weeks she has become easily aggravated......never to the point of striking or even coiling, but she'll rattle her tail against a limb that's in there and watch me closely when i'm in the snake room.....and she has gotten bigger/lumpier......not huge like she's swollen or anything like that, but just like she's actually gravid.......she seems perfectly happy and healthy, i'll find a bit of white chalky goodness every couple of weeks or so, but not much......she's very alert, seems more inquisitive now, her color has become very dark, etc.......
she hasn't shed since then, hasn't eaten, hasn't acted sick, etc.........i don't want her to starve but i don't wanna harm anything if she is indeed gravid......
the cages are spotless though, i'll clean them no less than once every 2 weeks and anytime there is defecation or a dirty bowl, they get replaced that instant......i keep fresh substrate in, clean sides, they are soaked bi weekly, etc..........
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RE: gravid or not? southern copperhead
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by agkistrodude on November 23, 2005
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I have coppers that stop eating every Sept. and don't eat again until May or June.Could be normal behavier. Marty
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RE: gravid or not? southern copperhead
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by Cro on November 23, 2005
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Ricky: Although it is late in the year, the copperhead could be gravid if she bred late, although it is quite unusual.
You say she is getting bigger and lumpier, which could suggest she is gravid. Give it another month, if the young are not born by then, then the snake is probably not gravid.
Another possibility is that she was gravid, and the young developed to a certain size, did not go full term, then died.
When this happens, they might be re-absorbed, or might be expelled, or might cause a blockage that can not be passed, and will kill the snake if they are not removed.
Do you by any chance know a friendly vet who can do an X ray? That would be the best way to find out.
JohnZ
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RE: gravid or not? southern copperhead
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by rickyduckworth on November 23, 2005
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i KNEW a vet but he moved and now no one locally will even look at a hot snake for even double their normal rates........any advice for the possibility that she miscarried (if it's called that)? i'm fond of all my snakes and certainly don't wanna lose any......
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RE: gravid or not? southern copperhead
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by Cro on November 23, 2005
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Ricky: I checked the Ackerman Reptile Husbandry Book, and found some information, however most requires the assistance of a vet. This is basically what he said:
An X ray can determine if there are living young or infertal bound egg masses. Although such masses are sometimes reabsorbed, they often require surgery for removal. If not removed, they block the intestines, and often are a source for bacterial growth and infection. This results in the death of the snake.
You could wait a little longer and see if the snake does give birth to young, or expell an mass, or reabsorbes it.
You could tube the snake and gently palpatate the swollen area of the abdomen.
If the lumps are soft, there could still be living young. You might even feel some movement from them.
If the lumps are hard and rubbery, then they are probably dead. If this is the case, he suggests soaking the snake in warm water, and squirting warm water into the cloaca, and gently trying to push the egg mass down and out.
If this does not work, they often give IM injections of oxytocin or vasotocin to induce uterine contractions which might expell the bound eggs.
If this does not work, then they are removed by surgery.
The unfortunate thing is that the bound up infertal mass is often fused together into a large clump, and the individual eggs sometimes can not be removed seperatly, but it is worth a try.
If there is a college near you with a vet school, or a zoo with a vet clinic, they might have an X ray, and might even help you with this.
Wish I had better news, but Ackerman`s book does not sound too promising as to the snake getting better without some outside help.
JohnZ
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RE: gravid or not? southern copperhead
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by rickyduckworth on November 24, 2005
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thanks for all the information, and i suppose i need to locate someone who can help......i'll see who i can find after turkey day......thanks again
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