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RE: Looking for a complete list of variations
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by Crazywolf on December 11, 2008
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morphs, color differences any type of variation, even hybrids, all of it i wanna know everything this little brain can hold.
you know about my balls, how ive got pastel, pied, albino, ivory etc projects at home, well i just want to know whats out there for these ven snakes as well, like the edb for example, theres a guy breeding albinos and selling me a pair, theres another guy with a striped edb project, etc.
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RE: Looking for a complete list of variations
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by Crazywolf on December 11, 2008
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ok so this is what i have so far
Eastern Diamondback Rattlesnake
~ AMEL.
~t negative albino
~hypo
~stripe
~axantic
~patternless
~partial patternless
Timber Rattlesnake
~AMEL.
~T-POS
~T-NEG
Canebrake Rattlesnake
~t positive
~leucistic
Dusky Pygmy Rattlesnake
~STRIPED
~hypo
~anery
Western Pygmy Rattlesnake
Carolina Pygmy Rattlesnake
~anerytheristic-
~axanthic
Southern Copperhead
~striped
~t positive albino
~hypo
~pastel
~anerytheristic
Northern Copperhead
~ spotted
Eastern Cottonmouth
~t negative albino
Western Cottonmouth
~leucistic
Florida Cottonmouth
~t positive albino
~white sided
Eastern Coral Snake
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RE: Looking for a complete list of variations
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by Crazywolf on December 11, 2008
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LOL!
chuck thought i said phases, i didnt say phases, i said variations, that includes morphs,phases, hybrids...any variation of any of theses snakes. lol
Chucks just too over worked, he needs to take a day off and relax, maybe hang out with his best bud Dan, lol.
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RE: Looking for a complete list of variations
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by Rob_Carmichael on December 11, 2008
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GOD HELP US ALL if the venomous hobby goes the way of ball pythons - I sure as heck hope that never happens. Ball pythons are nothing more than dollar signs to most owners - it's the sickest thing I've ever seen happen to the hobby. Folks plunk down a lot of cash for a ball python (doesn't matter if its a piebald or normal, its still Python regius), take it home, shove it in a rack where they are only seen when watered, fed or spot cleaned. There's zero interaction. Go to any of the bp forums and you'll see what I'm talking about. Go to any show and my point is very clearly seen. When someone called me at my facility to ask what size cage they should keep their ball python in, I told them that in my opinion, a minimum size of 4' x 3' x 2'. I told them to even go to 3 feet of vertical space as bp's do seek low lying shrubs in nature. They laughed and said that a well respected breeder told them to put in a sterilite box that is 24x13. Now you can barely find a normal ball python with pure genes. I started breeding bp's back in the 70's...and still have one that is very old.
Hopefully, the venomous community will never give in to this commercialized way of enjoying the hobby. Instead, rather than investing in high end morphs/designer snakes, dump that money into creating a kick butt exhibit that can be the center piece in your home - to watch a snake in a large, naturalist vivaria is one of the most rewarding experiences and yet here in the U.S. we've completely missed the mark - its not about providing excellent care for one or two animals, it's more about adding herps to your list because "bigger is better". That's too bad. I like Chuck's way of approaching selective breeding - keeping locality specific horridus and bringing out those populations' best traits. The day I see a "zig zag zipper licorice loreal pitless and fangless" EDB, I'm calling it quits.
Addendum: Before the albino breeders of the world crucify me, this is just one man's opinion and those who do breed for these traits have every right to do so and they have produced some neat looking animals...I just don't like it.
Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center
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RE: Looking for a complete list of variations
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by ChuckHurd on December 11, 2008
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two things, first off, Dan, you jug-head, just as sure as God made little green apples, when i was sitting in the school parking lot waiting on Jessica to get out of class, you asked me to name the PHASES of the native venomous in AL. second, Rob, if you take a good long look at venomous herpetology as a whole, you will see that certain aspects have already gone the way of the ball python. how often are you seeing normal or locality specific monocle cobras? they are all albino this, sun-set that...het for this that and the other. I am not opposed to morphs, for the most part, i can't afford them. =) however, my heart will always be into locality specif animals. but that would be a very difficult thing to be into, if balls or cobras where your thing. how often can you run over to Africa or Asia to catch certain localities? I don't think what we do will ever be completely commercialized, the market is to esoteric. after all, how many people really want a rattlesnake? after a new morph has been on the market for about three years, everyone that wants one, has it. then look what happens to the price? glades, who is normally on the high end of pricing anyway, has albino Eastern Diamondbacks on the list to the general public for $800. by normal wholesale to retail mark up, that means they are not paying more then $400 for them. Albino balls are way more plentiful, but held the price much better. just leads me to believe, anyone getting into it just for money, will shy away from us and lean on the ball/boa people.
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RE: Looking for a complete list of variations
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by pictigaster1 on December 11, 2008
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I agree with Rob I have friends with willardi three subspecies 2000 or 3000 apice man they could care less if they ever sell a single neonate and will keep all but those they trade for out breeding.These people I have the most respect for.I have been doing this for so long that I remember when and watched every fad, morph and variant appeared .Dont get me wrong I like several of the hot morphs out there and believe that you have the right to make a buck.Its when it becomes the only motivation thats when I have a problem.I would like to see some species or morphs come down a little in price.So I could have a chance at owning a blackhead bushmaster.ARCHIE.
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RE: Looking for a complete list of variations
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by Crazywolf on December 12, 2008
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I myself am not taking venomous down the same route as balls (for money), I was just using the morphs as examples of different variations.
Lol hey chuck, did I ever tell you we sat down with 30 cheeseburgers and i attempted to eat them all in 30 minutes? I only made it to 9.
(jughead eats alot of burgers, just reminded me lol)
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RE: Looking for a complete list of variations
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by Cro on December 12, 2008
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Patternless Copperheads have been found in Kansas.
Coral Snakes have been found that were Albino, and Solid Black, and with Saddles instead of Bands, and with totally bizarre color and pattern that was so wierd, that there is really no name for the animal.
Best Regards
John Z
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RE: Looking for a complete list of variations
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by Cro on December 12, 2008
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Archie, is there any chance you have a photo of that albino copperhead ?
I sure would like to know what it looked like.
Best Regards
John Z
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